Unlock the secrets to maximize the impact of Google Ads with insights from Dimitri Smirnov, CEO of Big Life Marketing. In this interview with Gary Pageau of the Dead Pixels Society, Smirnov reveals how to make each ad dollar work harder, and why your business should leverage Google's extensive reach, especially in the photo imaging industry.
Venture deeper into digital marketing as he explores the nuances of advertising across Facebook, Google, and YouTube. Discover the distinct customer mindsets unique to each platform and how to navigate Google's mysterious algorithm updates that can make or break ad performance. Smirnov illuminates the process of repurposing content and the indispensable art of A/B testing—fine-tuning every element of your campaign from snappy headlines to compelling calls to action—to ensure your advertisements aren't just seen but truly engage and convert.
Rounding out the discussion, Smirnov challenges the traditional confines of advertising budgets, by advocating for a nimble, data-driven mindset that can propel small businesses. He shares insights from his affiliate marketing practice, emphasizing how small enterprises can outpace their larger counterparts with agility and quick decision-making.
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Hosted and produced by Gary Pageau
Edited by Olivia Pageau
Announcer: Erin Manning
Welcome to the Dead Pixels Society podcast, the photo imaging industry's leading news source. Here's your host, gary Pageau. The Dead Pixels Society podcast is brought to you by Mediaclip, Advertek Printing and Independent Photo Imagers.Gary Pageau:
Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels Society podcast. I'm your host, gary Peugeot, and today we're joined by Dimitri Smirnov, the CEO of Big Life Marketing, and he's coming to us from Dallas, Texas, today. Hi, Dimitri, how are you today?Dimitri Smirnov:
I'm a little bit cold today but doing well otherwise, Nice to be here today.Gary Pageau:
Yeah, I think it's actually probably you look more bundled up than I am and I'm in Michigan and you're in Dallas, but I think, for those who can't see, he's wearing the full headgear and a parka this day.Dimitri Smirnov:
Well, it's getting the job done. I feel very warm and cozy here in my cold office.Gary Pageau:
Well, that's because we were a very warm and cozy podcast. We make you feel comfortable, and so those vibes are coming through the camera and the microphone and you're just feeling it right there. So tell us a little bit about your business before we get into the topic of Google Ads and how to make them more effective. Talk a little bit about you know, starting your company. It's a small company, but powerful.Dimitri Smirnov:
I would agree with that. And speaking of the warm and cozy, our business is all about making business owners feel warm and cozy when they're running paid advertising, because it could be a little bit stressful when you're spending lots of money and not knowing what the result is going to be. Are you going to be profitable, Are you going to even break even, or are you just going to lose your entire investment? And are things working? Are they? Are customers going to buy tomorrow or in 180 days or five years from now? All those are questions that our clients need help with and that's what we're really good at doing. And so I mean just going back to the foundation is Google Ads is kind of a mystery box. Facebook, on the other hand, kind of made it easy for people to run themselves. Sometimes. It's a pretty good platform and interface, whereas Google Ads is, I would say, a little bit more advanced. So why did we start the business? To help people get onto the Google Ads platform, which includes YouTube ads, and use that scale. And Google's the biggest platform in the world that has the most eyeballs of any website or business. It knows everything about everyone. Businesses are browsers, android phones. You use YouTube, gmail, google Maps. It's almost infinite what Google knows about us, so it's a platform that everyone has to be on. That's why we started the business and that's why it works, because we're also very data driven and it's a perfect match with Google Ads.Gary Pageau:
So did you have an advertising background before you started this business, or is this something you just said? I see an opportunity. I'm going to start a business.Dimitri Smirnov:
Well, my entire career has been spent inside of Google Ads. In fact, I don't remember a single day that I had not logged into Google Ads. It's like even on vacation. One of the fun parts about doing direct response marketing is that there's always something new to do. There's always new data that comes in and it's just fun to do, and my background, my education, is statistics and economics Plus. I like creative endeavors, drawing and other things like that, and I like to say marketing is the perfect combination of math and creativity. So it gets to be both fun and fulfilling working in Google Ads.Gary Pageau:
So we're talking at this time, just after the holiday season, right? So how is season wrapped up in the photo industry, photo imaging industry? That is like the Super Bowl, right? I mean, you've got to make your bones in the fourth quarter and then now is the time where a lot of people spend time kind of assessing what worked and are making plans for the future, because a lot of folks, as you know, you've got to plan three, four months out on ad buys and things like that. So what kind of things should a small business owner consider when they're reviewing their previous sales or previous metrics? What are the other clues that they can look into on what worked and what didn't so they can plan for the future?Dimitri Smirnov:
Yes, just on a bare bones. Basic level is did your business make more revenue than when you weren't running paid advertising? And so if that's a yes, okay, that's a positive sign already, because a lot of times the answer is no, in which case a lot more needs to be reevaluated, and the easiest way to go about things is do more of what's working. So if you just added paid ads and you've got more revenue, well, try even more paid ads now.Gary Pageau:
Now there's, of course, a lot of more complicated metrics than just the basic. Is there more revenue? There's net profit, there's the cost to acquire a customer, there's a lifetime value of a customer, there's their marketing efficiency ratio and, not to get super into the weeds of things, but a couple of those metrics you really want to know as a business owner, especially if you're going into the paid advertising space and if you already are in the paid advertising space, if you're looking to scale, there's a big difference between spending $1,000 a month on ads and $100,000 a month on ads. You add a thousand, you can make all the mistakes in the world and it's not going to affect your business in a negative way at scale, whereas a hundred thousand or more. We have some clients that have spent over a million dollars a month in just Google ads. You can't make those kinds of mistakes.Gary Pageau:
Okay, finding out the cost to acquire a customer, regardless of what your offer is, whether you're selling a $20 product or a $20,000 product, you have to know what it costs to get that customer. Sure, everything stems off of that mm-hmm.Gary Pageau:
so let's talk a little bit then about kind of the paid advertising space, because it's more than just buying Quote keyword on quote, right, I mean there's some strategy involved, there's timing involved, there's there's all kinds of strategies involved and and as I said, it also gets into some video. Now Can you talk a little bit about that Consideration as you're making your plan?Dimitri Smirnov:
There's a lot of. It depends on the offer and Sure. So so.Gary Pageau:
So let's say, for example I'll give you a typical example you can kind of riff off Well, you're, I was a. For example, you are making canvas prints and it's a very competitive market. Right, there's a, there's literally hundreds, maybe even thousands of people offering canvas prints and it's usually some sort of discount offer.Dimitri Smirnov:
So Go for companies that offer canvas prints. Typically it's a play into long-term value. You're not going to make money on that first sale, especially when you're paying for ads. Oftentimes you'll lose money. So the question is when you do acquire a new customer, how much will they make you over x period of time? And these are numbers that you need to figure out. How much will you make on day one, how much will you make in 30 days, six months, a year and so on? So if you have those numbers, once I get a customer they pay me, let's say, a $100 on average on day one and then by six months They've paid another hundred dollars and by a year they paid another. So it's a three hundred dollar one year value for customers. Now you get to decide, depending on your cash flow, of course, and that that's a consideration. But out of those three hundred dollars in revenue, what's my cost of goods sold? That takes some chunk out of that revenue and then you determine what do I want my margin to be and that's how much you can spend on advertising. Let's say cost of goods sold is a hundred dollars and you want a hundred dollar margin on that three hundred dollar customer over the course of a year. Then you have a hundred dollars to spend on advertising. That's the foundation of all advertising is just knowing what your margin is, how much you have to spend, and before you have these numbers, in case your business that doesn't know these numbers and you don't even have customers right then it's more of a guess-and-check type of Operation and you kind of just have to experiment and see how long your customers stay for Okay. So the second part of that this is is where is the customer and the customer journey if they're looking For canvas prints today and then Google search is the way to go, because they're at the bottom of the funnel, they want a solution today, they want to get it done now. Google search, so bid on keywords like canvas print for family photos or something like that. Search can often be expensive depending on the keywords. Yeah, I don't know exactly what it is in the in the Imaging canvas space, but I would guess it could be five dollars or ten dollars. Some industries it's a hundred dollars per click now, some are less. They could be a dollar. So right.Gary Pageau:
So that's another consideration to keep in mind and in our space We've got established players who have already, you know, bid those words up 100% and and your competition.Dimitri Smirnov:
You have to separate yourself from your competition in some way. So when you're advertising your service, how are you positioning yourself in comparison to the big player like Shutterfly? What is unique about your offer that they won't get from Shutterfly? Is it Price is going to be difficult to compete on, so is it your service? Is it your quality of the print? Is it your shipping offer? Is it your bonus get one free or something that you do to get people off of Shutterfly because everyone knows about them. You need to get them into your business. Maybe it's a personal phone call like hey, I'll talk to you and and help you plan this canvas print or this family journal the way that Professional I like, for example. That would be interesting for people who aren't looking for bottom of the barrel pricing there are. There are more sophisticated consumers looking for a better end product.Gary Pageau:
That's how you would differentiate yourself. Now, and one more thing I'm gonna get into.Gary Pageau:
Another math part of this is you didn't tell me there was gonna be math. I.Dimitri Smirnov:
I think it's middle school math, so it's just middle school. Okay, if you're paying $5 a click and you need to convert that User in $100 or less, that means one out of every 20 people that click on your ad has to become a customer for this whole equation to work out. But if you're starting and there's some, there's steps in a funnel to get a customer usually it's Get a click on the ad, get to your website, maybe there's a lead form, maybe they fill out some information and then eventually they pay. So you have to watch every step of that funnel to make sure you're still on track to hit that $100 cost to acquire a customer. Now, finally, if, if users aren't necessarily looking to buy that product today, that's where you can start showing display ads, video ads. You can also do remarketing people who have visited your site before but didn't buy or did buy and want to buy again. Video and display ads are very good at explaining more, overcoming objections. There's so many reasons that your customers didn't buy. You have to figure out what those reasons are and Address them in your video ads. Video ads are so powerful. You can pay two to three dollars per click on a video ad. You have Between 30 seconds and 30 minutes if you want a video time space To show the ad, assuming they don't skip your ad and you can explain everything. A video is is incredibly powerful for top and middle of funnel customers.Gary Pageau:
So for those who are relatively new, this is just really quick, like in 15 seconds. Explain what you mean by funnel.Dimitri Smirnov:
Funnel is the journey that that you take a prospect through to go from Not knowing about you to becoming a customer. So a funnel includes your landing page, any type of email automation, text automation that you might have that goes off of a, let's say, a landing page, lead form, and just that whole internet, and sometimes offline too if a phone calls could be involved, but the whole funnel basically you're taking people from the biggest part of the the audience and whittling them down into the people who actually buy. Exactly into the shape of a funnel. So they're going from not never knowing about you, but they know they're, they're Solution aware, they know that there are businesses that do you do now? The next part is getting them to know that you are one of those businesses. Then getting them to thinking well, maybe I will buy from your business, and then ultimately To buying from your business and buying over and over again.Gary Pageau:
Sure, sure, sure. So if someone has a Establish what, say they have someone on staff who's like buying up Google ads because they're also doing Facebook I mean, you know, a lot of people are in my audience, right They've, you know they have one person kind of does all that. May they maybe do the social, they're doing the Facebook ads, they're doing some Google keyword buys and they're doing them. Maybe they're managing the YouTube page right there, kind of this. You know catch all you know utility person is kind of doing it all. And that's the typical small business, right, the owner says you're the digital person, you do it all. But those are very, very different disciplines aren't they?Dimitri Smirnov:
It depends on how granularly you want to get and how high you want to scale right. For general small businesses. I think one digital marketing expert could actually do it all to get to the big scales of High ad spend over a million dollars a year and ad spend per platform. The knowledge is a little bit more advanced. Right in agencies like ours, because we only work in Google ads. We know exactly what ads need to be run for Google ads traffic. We need it. We know the landing pages, the. The state of mind of our customers is different Sure Google ads than it is in Facebook, for example. On Facebook, typically it's just scrolling and it's a matter of Pattern interrupt, get your attention, get a click Whereas on YouTube, a Lot of people are searching for specific answers to questions that they have, and that's a completely different mindset. They're very powerful mindset. They're looking for a solution.Gary Pageau:
Right to make a butter book. Yeah, hang a canvas. How to take a better picture, right. So those are all things you can key in on Exactly. You know, you always hear about, you know the algorithm changing and things like that. That's on the search side. Does that happen on the ad side in Google, or is it pretty much the same all the way through? How often is that changing? I keep hearing it changes all the time.Dimitri Smirnov:
The well. The algorithm is a black box and it's impossible to really know what exactly is changing. I'm certain that it's changing all the time in both search and video ads, similar to how the SEO algorithm changes the extra information that we get as an Advertiser and, by the way, anyone can get this information by just logging into Google ads. You have the access and all like agencies have special access to this right. But you get to see what is your view rate, what is your CTR, what is your conversion rate and ultimately, no matter what the algorithms are, they want your ads to act as Quality content on their platform. So if a lot of people are watching your ads and they're clicking your ads and then they're converting into buyers off of your ads, the ad platforms will keep keep feeding your ads for lower cost per click.Gary Pageau:
So honestly it's it's in their Best interest to make their platform more effective, because some people just stop using it doesn't work.Dimitri Smirnov:
Well, the best type of advertising is when you don't know that it's an ad. Right and it still convinces you to buy. And really, an ad platform Wants a good user experience. They want the users to keep using YouTube comm, for example, and if an ad pops up that Half the people aren't clicking, skip on. That's Even better than a really good organic YouTube video, because not only is Google Still getting the attention from whoever's watching, but they're also getting paid for it. Yeah, yeah.Gary Pageau:
So you know, as a person who lives like, and you know I watch TV and I also watch YouTube videos and all that I often see messages very similar. Right, it's like a TV ad. It's really purposed almost as a YouTube Message. What do you think about that? Do you think that makes sense? Just a repurpose, even though you're it's a different platform.Dimitri Smirnov:
It does make sense because it's at least a foot in the door. It's seeing when do I stand now with the existing content that I have. One of the biggest hurdles for advertisers is Making the ad so you already have the content, just put it on and see what happens, and then you optimize off of that, but with iterative a B testing right. So I'm a big fan of using repurposed content. Whether it's coming from TV, whether it's coming from Facebook, anything that you have gets the ball rolling.Gary Pageau:
Okay, yeah, again gonna go with basic terms, because maybe not everyone knows term. What do you mean by a B testing A?Dimitri Smirnov:
B testing is when you take one variable, for example in your ad. Let's say you a headline is one variable of your ad where there's image headline, sub headline, logo, maybe something else call the action at some point. Yes, call to action. So the head? Let's say on a static image, not a video, but on a video you'll you have tons of different variables, even more than a static image. But just for an image you have a headline, or a search ad for that matter. You have a headline, that's the variable. And you want to test one option against the another, option, option a versus option B, and see which one performs better than the other. And, by the way, when you do these tests you want your results to be statistically significant. And back to the math part. But it's not good enough to just get five clicks on each and Make a decision based on that. So you want to set some kind of Confidence interval, like there's a 90% chance that my, that my test is Significant, and and run the a B test that way and just keep iterating. Because no matter how good your ad is, there's always a better headline Waiting to be put in. And even if there isn't, there's a thing called ad fatigue and after a certain number of impressions, mm-hmm, people just respond less to the same ad.Gary Pageau:
Well, that was kind of where I was going to with the repurposing content, right, if I've seen the the ad on you know TV or streaming service, and then I see the same ad in YouTube, it's like skip, skip, skip, because I've already seen it. No, so you know. That's where I think, like you said, maybe you need to tweak that a little bit.Dimitri Smirnov:
Here's a note about Skipping ads. Let's see the benchmark CTR that we aimed for on a YouTube ad is 1%, meaning we expect 99 out of a hundred people to skip our ad effectively, or to at least not click on it. So most ads don't work, but the ones that do get a click, they they're powerful, and another thing is this kind of brings. This is a side note, but an important side note. It's not about getting more clicks necessarily. It's about getting more high quality clicks. So if you only get a 0.5% CTR, but everyone who's clicking over is becoming a customer. You don't really need to change much because you're actually hitting that target audience of yours and everyone else is skipping, which is perfect.Gary Pageau:
Yeah, that's okay, cuz I mean that you know click-throughs or Are great, but if people aren't actually buying or logging into your you know logging to signing up the newsletter or doing whatever Is you want them to do, then it's not great. But if a hundred percent of the people who click-through do it, then it's more as much, more effective.Dimitri Smirnov:
Yes, and that's part of monitoring every step of the funnel. Sometimes you can have a Very good beginning of the funnel and it kind of drops off at the end and that's more. That's a quality of traffic issue, whereas if you have low view rates, low CTRs, that's more of a ad creative issue.Gary Pageau:
So you can actually identify what's working in An ad based on how people are interacting with it.Dimitri Smirnov:
Yes, and you can have a very entertaining ad that may be like a movie trailer, where things are blowing up and there's nudity or something and everyone's watching it, but no one's clicking it because it's not, it's not, it's not relevant to them as a buyer.Gary Pageau:
So you know it's funny because you mentioned that, because a lot of times I see Ads on social or whatever and it seems like it's more about the agency trying to make something for the clip real, then Actually getting results for their clients.Dimitri Smirnov:
I think that's one of the biggest differences of our agency is that we care about the end Of the whole advertising process. We want the client to make more money, and not even just from a revenue perspective, from a net profit perspective. That's why Tracking? And we call these the CFO numbers. But like we're looking into the CRM, how far are they going? How are they interacting with the sales team? All that stuff is so important to the front end piece of it. It's not just about getting impressions. Almost no company unless you're publicly traded and just have a hundred million dollar Orderly budget for advertising. That needs to go somewhere Right.Gary Pageau:
Most people don't care about impressions, they care about sales, right, and not only sales but Are we selling that, that product profitably, right, I mean, that's one of the challenges that we have in the photo imaging space on the output side, like when you're talking about you know canvas or books or things. You know people do a lot of Discounting to get that traffic but you know at the end of the day, you know, are they gonna make money over a term? You know how many canvases are people. Are somebody's just somebody gonna buy in a year? Right, you hope they buy three. They may just take advantage of your order on your offer and then bail as an advertiser you need to pay attention to.Dimitri Smirnov:
You can get. There's different types of customers.Gary Pageau:
Okay, there's ones that are just looking for a bargain.Dimitri Smirnov:
They'll get the lowest price you can and those are difficult customers to make a profit. Quite frankly, everyone's after that higher ticket, more customized service type of customer. Same with our agency. We don't want to work with anyone, in fact we'd rather work with almost nobody. And the ones that we do work with, they are giving us agency to perform the things that we know that we're really good at doing. But going back to making a profit on an offer, that's also something to consider is should I keep discounting? Should I keep going after the bottom of the barrel type? Right, I mean?Gary Pageau:
no, I mean that's the way to talk about it, sure.Dimitri Smirnov:
Because maybe you won't make a profit. So you can again A B test. You can A B test your offer. It doesn't just have to be a variable in your ad creative. You can A B test anything so you can send people to an offer. That's low ticket and basic cookie cutter or something that costs five or 10 times as much for the same thing, except it's customized, very high quality print, high quality paper, custom etching wherever. And see, maybe you'll get five times fewer customers, but at a 10 X price you're making two times of revenue and probably-. Well, you're marginally better, sure, Margin is I don't know how many times better. So rethinking the offer sometimes is the big click that could change the business's trajectory.Gary Pageau:
So you see, the challenge that the photo industry has is, for something like that, like a canvas print, let's say, let's stick with canvas prints. Unlike almost any other product that you buy online, the user has to do something to create the products. If I'm buying a hat like you're wearing, I can just look online, click and have a shift in my house, in our world. I want a picture of you on a canvas wearing that hat, in those glasses and that cool parka. I have to get the picture somehow, I have to upload it, I have to go through a bunch of steps. So a lot of people use price to just get people's attention, just to make them aware, hey, you can do this. And then it's very hard to move them off the chain too. Those are other products.Dimitri Smirnov:
I mean, that's the standard thing and there may be a creative way to do this completely differently. One thing that I, for example we only work really with high end eye ticket type of clients who are selling things for at least $500, typically, especially if it's a digital product, we want them to have something that's 5,000 or 25,000. Certification things, something like that. So I'm thinking it from that perspective. What can we do around canvas prints, considering the objections you just mentioned, that we can explain potentially in a long form video ad, maybe a webinar, maybe a video sales letter, where you're not selling just the canvas print that anyone can get on Shutterfly, but you're selling the entire done for you experience, where they don't even have to select the photos, they don't have to do anything, you have, but it costs instead of $50, it costs a thousand or $2,000, whatever it is, and there's, I'm sure, a lot of people I mean canvas prints can run into the hundreds, right.Gary Pageau:
I mean you can spend a lot of money on canvas prints and so I mean it is. And that's one of the reasons why people like it right is because as a superwriter you get somebody making a 20 by 24 print that's $300, right, so it can run into some money from a revenue generating standpoint. But again, the challenge is that's sometimes scares people off. But I kind of like what you were saying. Right, just kind of own that piece that there's a lot of people who aren't going to go through that process, who maybe could be walked through with a higher end, almost like a white glove sales treatment.Dimitri Smirnov:
Yes, yes. So rethinking what you're selling could also change the trajectory of your business, going from being a provider of a commodity and there's hundreds of websites that can give you canvas prints but there's only one business or maybe it's even a local business, maybe it's a brick and mortar, where somebody can actually come in and somebody works with you. I don't know what it is.Gary Pageau:
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, you keep going.Dimitri Smirnov:
That's exactly what people should be doing right, and it's a different experience. It's more fun for you as a service provider, it's more fun for the customer. And then the other thing is you have that customer for life. If you do a good job, they'll come to you for all of their photo needs and video editing whatever else that you do, they'll come to you. So you also have a much larger long-term value on that.Gary Pageau:
No, I get that, Typically speaking. When you take a business course, about a class or about how to run a business, they say you know your advertising budgets should be three to 5%, right, or a total sales, or we have the usual end number. Is that the advice anymore, or is it a little more nuanced than that these days?Dimitri Smirnov:
For small businesses. I never found that advice to be helpful For major conglomerate corporations. Sure, because they just need to sign something. Stick with it. There's too much bureaucracy to be flexible, so something like that it has to be said in advance where it's a percentage of revenue or whatever it is. A small business should look at advertising completely differently. Why, if something is working, why would you limit yourself to some percentage of revenue or some set cost for?Gary Pageau:
your advertising.Dimitri Smirnov:
If it's working and the cash is turning over and it's turning a profit, keep increasing your scale, especially if you can keep fulfilling. Obviously, if you're maxed out on fulfillment, you have to pause. You have to hire more people. But if you can fulfill everything, just keep going. It can be indefinite. There's no limit, there's no preset limit that you should set on advertising.Gary Pageau:
Is that a relatively new philosophy, or is that something you just have figured out, having done this for a while, that that seems to be the way things are moving?Dimitri Smirnov:
I'm not sure, because I'm not so much in the corporate world, although we do work with corporate clients. It is a little bit more difficult for them to set their budget, but for me it's just an intuitive, obvious thing. I come from an affiliate marketing world where you spend your own money to sell other people's products. In that world, let's say, I spend $1,000 a day and I generate $2,000 in income. My next question is well, how do I spend $2,000 a day today so I can generate $4,000 income or maybe $3,500 in income where it's still a higher net profit? And I go until I keep going until there's no marginal improvement in increased advertising. And now you've found your optimal point. So you just keep going until it's no longer marginally profitable for each additional advertising dollar.Gary Pageau:
What sounds very data driven. It sounds like mass.Dimitri Smirnov:
It's kind of a cheat code, because there's no secret to it, there's no hidden numbers, there's no tricks. It's a simple input output. And you don't have to guess you don't have to set limits or floors or anything, you just give and take.Gary Pageau:
You know it's interesting that that's kind of an interesting philosophy. I could see that actually working a lot better for people who are smaller or mid-sized right, because those people tend to be more instinctive in their businesses and they do want to you know can react to things quickly and, you know, see a return and act on it, as opposed to you know a billion dollar company who you know has to do a quarterly budget and all that other fun stuff and just okay, we're spending 3% this quarter.Dimitri Smirnov:
Small businesses have a massive advantage over large businesses in multiple ways. Number one they can be flexible. They can always turn on a dime if something is not working. Or if something is working, you put more eggs into that basket. That's working, and it's instant feedback. There's no one you have to get approval from to pursue the next step. You can hire a consultant to change your website, and overnight Things could be different, and so with a small business, everything moves fast, very fast. It's a massive advantage.Gary Pageau:
So if people wanted to learn more about your company and the type of things your company offers, where would they go? Demetri?Dimitri Smirnov:
BigLifeMarketingcom is the best place to check us out and we have case studies up there. We've worked with some very massive celebrity type clients like Jordan Belford, the Wolf of Wall Street, rich Dad, poor Dad, robert Kiyosaki. In the coaching space we worked with Burke Castillo from the Life Coach School, which is a massive coaching and certification company, so, and then we have e-commerce case studies, so you can check everything out there, kind of our philosophy, how we do things in a little bit more detail and explain here. But I think you kind of get the idea and we're very data driven, we're very net profit focused and we're very creative focused, because that's what drives ultimately the biggest differentiator. Forget all the algorithms, forget all the math and whatever Really strong. Creative is advertising. Creative and copy that's what makes advertising a winner or a loser, and so we're all about that. So BigLifeMarketingcom that's the best place, awesome, well great Demetri.Gary Pageau:
It's great to meet you and look forward to learning more about BigLifeMarketing. I hope we get a chance to chat again soon.Dimitri Smirnov:
Well, I had a lot of fun talking with you, Gary, and actually I got some new ideas, I think, for some of our clients too, in rethinking their offer, potentially for maybe some a little bit more high ticket. So I appreciate the conversation. I enjoyed it Well thank you, sir, appreciate it Take care.Erin Manning:
Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixel Society podcast. Read more great stories and sign up for the newsletter at wwwthedpixelssocietycom.