Empowering Teams and Overcoming Adversity, with Tyler Copenhaver-Heath

What happens when a challenging upbringing meets an indomitable spirit? Meet Tyler Copenhaver-Heath, whose extraordinary entrepreneurial journey is captivating and inspiring. From his early days balancing biochemistry studies and mastering powder coating to bootstrapping his first business with just $4,000, Copenhaver-Heath's story is a masterclass in resilience and innovation. Discover the sacrifices he made and the strategies he used to outmaneuver well-funded competitors in this riveting conversation.

Ever wondered how to balance hands-on work with managing a business? Copenhaver-Heath opens up about his rigorous routine and the pivotal moment when an injury forced him to delegate, underscoring the importance of empowering and trusting your team. Hear his experiences transitioning from doing everything himself to leading by example, creating a culture of shared responsibility. His insights reveal how balance and adaptability are crucial for fostering a thriving, collaborative environment.

Thinking about selling your business or empowering underrepresented groups? Copenhaver-Heath shares invaluable advice on preparing a business for sale, from comprehensive documentation to incorporating technology, ensuring it can operate independently. Learn how his commitment to providing free resources and mentorship is driving systemic change and fostering a community where small businesses can thrive. With personal anecdotes and actionable strategies, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for aspiring entrepreneurs and established business owners alike.

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Chapters

• 0:02 From Auto Business to Biochemistry
• 8:34 Balancing Management and Hands-on Work
• 12:37 The Value of Education and Experience
• 13:21 [Ad] The Dark Horse Entrepreneur | Helping Parents Make Money Online
• 13:47 (Cont.) The Value of Education and Experience
• 23:07 Preparing a Business for Sale
• 27:31 Empowering Underdogs in Small Business

Transcript

Erin Manning: 0:02

Welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast, the photo imaging industry's leading news source. Here's your host, gary Pegeau. The Dead Pixel Society podcast is brought to you by MediaClip, advertag Printing and Independent Photo Imagers.

Gary Pageau: 0:18

Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels Society podcast. I'm your host, Gary Pageau. Today we're joined by Tyler Copenhaver- Heath, who's a I don't even know how to describe this guy. He's an entrepreneur, biochemist and an MBA executive of all things. So, hi, Tyler, how are you today?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 0:39

Gary, thank you so much for having me here, and I don't blame you. I don't know how to describe myself either.

Gary Pageau: 0:44

Well, you know, I guess where to start is to start with your story, which I think is an intriguing one, of how you were kind of brought up in a rough surrounding and you got into the world of business and how that changed you. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 1:01

Yeah. So I guess underdog for business. And I would love to say, like all the big entrepreneurs in the world, that I knew all along that I wanted to be an entrepreneur, that I sold candy bars at 12 years old. I wasn't raised in a way that I felt that was possible. I thought business ownership I thought big success. I thought that was in another class of people.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 1:25

I kind of was like mentally positioned into what my status was in life and so I surrendered to being a worker, you know. And so, 13 years old, had my first full time job. Little did I know that was actually preparing me for entrepreneurship. You know, not having any money, you know no dad around, mom kind, mom kind of around, maybe a little bit, uh, and then you know, just going to work full time. And then I got to learn businesses that way and I didn't even know it. So a lot of times when you just go out and you know you experience, I think it can lead you to other things.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 1:58

Um, the big thing for me with, uh, getting into business was, like I said, I didn't feel it was possible.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 2:05

But you start doing some things on the side, you start having some traction, you start having a little bit of success in different ways. The gym is huge for me. Building some confidence in the gym, in my MMA gyms, that sort of stuff, you know, and then finally, like not believing everybody telling me I was stupid from when I was younger led to pursuing a degree in biochemistry, and I think accomplishing hard things is another thing too. It's like once you start to accomplish some things, you're like I can do anything. So I was originally just like working on cars in my backyard while I was attending a full-time biochem program and working full-time, and people liked the cars that I was working on and so that led to my first business. Like it was really a run in with the city telling me I couldn't do this strip and paint in my driveway thing anymore, and that led to my first business. I guess helped me approach that fear. And then entrepreneurship has been my road ever since.

Gary Pageau: 3:00

Let's talk a little bit about that, that early road, because it sounds to me like you kind of had to adapt a bootstrapping mentality from the get-go. Because you know, let's say, for example, you're working and you're thinking about starting your own business, right, and you probably didn't feel confident at the time to go to a bank and ask for a loan, right, so you're bootstrapping and cash flowing. So talk a little bit about overcoming that obstacle.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 3:30

Nobody's going to give some poor kid who had a dad who was in prison money. First of all, you know, like they're not going to loan it to me, they're not going to invest in me, and I kind of don't blame them. You know what reasons have I given them to do that? And so, yeah, you're on your own. My first business was started with $4,000. You have to do things differently, you know. You can't look online and have all these people say go out and own your own business, you're going to be paid $400,000 tomorrow. You're going to drive the sports car day one.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 4:00

No, you know, like us bootstrappers, us people starting from nothing, especially with no education in it or no somebody, nobody, backing you up, what you have is your work ethic and your desire to not quit, and that will get. That will be enough. You know, my first business I learned lived in a dirt lot no electricity, no running water. I did that for years. You know it's like I was willing to give up things that most wouldn't to have my business, because that was the edge that I needed to, you know, to to make up. But in the end it worked. My biggest competitor was backed by the richest man in this state, and I don't know I'm not usually a bragger, but we, we whooped their butt, you know, and so, like we, and what was that business?

Gary Pageau: 4:42

What were you doing?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 4:47

It started out by like I was working on custom plastic cars and I called them drivable customs. I wanted like people to drive these cars instead of keeping them in the garage, so that went into custom auto work in general, which then I just kept. Throwing barriers to entry in front of my competition was the way I looked at it, and so-.

Gary Pageau: 5:04

And what would be an example of a barrier to entry in front of my competition was the way I looked at it, and so, and what would be an example of a barrier to entry in that space that you would? You were trying to do like uh, uh, something they couldn't do.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 5:13

Yeah, so so glad. You asked that, right. And so you're in the custom automotive world, right, and you have all these competitors. So what can you do to get ahead of your competition? You know, and the answer I had was stay in that dirt lot longer, buy equipment that made it so that they couldn't compete with me they, you were usually, for instance, one of the barriers to entry. I threw in their way. I bought the second largest powder coating oven in the city. Right, it was a big thing at the time to change the color of your car and then also the color of your wheels. Every single one of my competitors just about subbed out their powder coating. I was the only one in town that didn't. And not only that, I had one of the largest systems in the city. One barrier to entry.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 5:53

Next thing I knew I opened a complete wood shop with a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of woodworking equipment. Now I could build stereo boxes. I could build interiors. That led to now doing work for new vehicle manufacturers. I had the second largest dyno in the entire country. You know that led to building high end sports cars and engine building. I bought beautiful paint booths. Now they can't touch me because I do all these things in one.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 6:18

In one room I had a print shop complete. You know like we could do. Vinyl wraps was. It was one of the biggest things in the on the earth that then we also got into the electronics world. We bought all this equipment for electronics. Now we're building custom headlight systems and sending them all over the place a lot to Michigan, actually, thank you. So that led to other product lines. That led to developing our own LED kits, you know, and so like, which we manufacturers overseas sold in house. By the way, that's one of the biggest pivots I missed in my entire business. I talk about a lot about noticing your pivots now, because it was an opportunity I completely missed. But I mean, that's a quick example of like throwing some barriers to entry in the way. It's like be willing to suffer, especially if you come from nothing. Put off the car, put off the fancy house, you know like throw a couple barriers to entry in the way and now you can sky pass your competition. It'll be worth the suffering, I promise you.

Gary Pageau: 7:10

And so what was the? I mean, do you still have that business or did you sell it? Or what happened with that?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 7:16

I sold it um, I guess, three years ago now, four years ago now.

Gary Pageau: 7:19

Okay, so you run it for quite some time and of course the natural pivot from someone who's doing custom automobiles is biochemistry, clearly, I mean, that's such an obvious connection that I'm surprised more people haven't made that connection. Talk to me about that.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 7:38

You know so even my brothers don't give me a fair shake on this and I hope I don't segue it too much.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 7:45

But you know, one of the key components I think to business is not quitting, no matter how hard it gets. I was in the final year of my biochemistry degree when I opened my first business and I completed my biochemistry degree. Was that easy? No, do you know how hard that was? That was really hard. We have all these entrepreneurs, mark Zuckerberg, those kinds of guys bragging I. You know I dropped out of college and look what I did. You know it's like, mark, you quit college. You could have finished it and like, even when I tell my brothers this is like well, tyler, he had a huge company to run. You know it's like he had to quit or whatever it's like. You know how much smaller it is as a person where you are the key component to your business, especially at first to now like segue your time and complete your degree in biochemistry. You know so, doing a hard thing and accomplishing it is invaluable, because no quit is the number one rule in success for business. And on top of that, you know I was used to like I'd work, I'd get up at three o'clock in the morning, I'd go to the gym, then I would come back here, you know I would work, you know, and then, uh, come back here, you know I would work, you know, and then I come back here, you know, I would go back to work, uh and uh, you know like I'd work all day and then at about eight o'clock at night I'd pull out my biochemistry books. I'd study biochemistry until I fell asleep and then I'd get up, you know, the next day and I'd do the same thing. But guess what, when I graduated, I was still used to that routine. So now, instead of a biochemistry book, you know what I pulled out for a year a powder coating book. I taught myself how to powder coat be by reading a textbook on powder coating for a year, getting a small system, playing with the small system, and when the opportunity came up, then I bought the second largest powder coat oven in the city and I was the one that originally did all the powder coating. I would stay up till 12 o'clock at night. I do all the powder coating.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 9:23

Um, once again, not to segue too much, I ended up breaking my back and one of my employees was seeing me one night. I guess he stopped by or something. He saw me I was. I was having to take a break in between the oven and the blaster chambers Cause my back hurts so bad and he's like Tyler, you're teaching me this. You know you're not doing it anymore, and it gives me goosebumps and almost makes me want to cry a little bit because he saw that. You know he wanted to help and good people is super important and he got better than me at it, you know, and like that's one of my most prideful points in my company is is him caring and not only that, surpassing me in my ability to do you know that. And then he went on to do really big things too, so it helped his career. So, yeah, I hope.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 10:04

I didn't get too far off track there.

Gary Pageau: 10:05

Oh no, actually. No, that kind of segwayed, I think, kind of into sort of a management thing which I think is important for new entrepreneurs, is, you know? I mean, obviously, from your background and perspective, you felt like you had to do it all because you felt like you didn't have resources. So you were bootstrapping, you were growing, you're going to do it yourself, but there comes a point where you know you need to bring other people in and you need to share the wealth, so to speak, in terms of the duties and the job functions and the things like that. But does it if you hadn't really broken your back doing it? Was that like the breaking point, or did you realize this was an issue?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 10:42

I always am one of those people that I can do everything, and then I'm also a person that leads by example, even up until the day, like I sold that company. And like I don't want to sound like I'm bragging, I just want to give you guys some bearing on the company. You know it's like multiple locations, multiple, multiple million dollars in revenue based off four thousand dollars. Clients like the wwe, the rolling stone, cnn, new vehicle manufacturers. You know it's like we grew a company from nothing and created something big Right. Even like the heads of like huge companies used to come in here. We were testing facility for them. I can probably name drop three M here. You know they used to come in there like we've been coming in here for four years.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 11:20

Tyler, you guys have no idea how the industry talks to you about you. You're so humble in what you do. But to your point, like until the day I sold that company, I took a turn cleaning the employee restroom and we actually I had guys making well over six figures a year we used to race to see who could get in there first and then they tried to out clean the boss. That's a culture you can't beat. And so like here's the thing.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 11:42

It's like we say if you're working in your business, you're doing it wrong. You should be working on your business, and I will adamantly disagree with that. And I know that's like completely against everybody out there. And there is no way you bootstrap a business and you're not working in your business at first. And not only that, but then you get to the point where you're working on your business. Yes, it's more important that you're working on your business, but I think you still dive back in from time to time and you work in because that inspires people, that lets you know what's going on.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 12:11

The CEO of whatever big company out there in the world, why do you think that other undercover boss thing they find out so much? That's from diving back in, but it's. It's a hard when you've been used to doing everything. That's a hard juggle. So it's like you do have to find that point where it's on and in. But then I think you jump back in once in a while but then realize you can't be the person that's always working in either, you know, and so that's one of the harder parts to give up.

Gary Pageau: 12:37

Because I think that's one of the things. I think, when people get to a certain size right, they get to a point where not only are they losing touch with the customer because they're not on the front lines, but they're also losing touch with the processes of whatever function of the business. And I think, as I mentioned several times on the podcast past, if you don't have your processes down, if you can deliver the thing people hired you to do when you're supposed to do it at the price you agreed on, then you're going to have problems. And I think there does come a point where there's a disconnect, or some more people who are founders or they're early people in the business who know the why instinctively right, then then they separate from that.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 13:38

Thank you for saying that because I know it's unpopular opinion, but there is. You have to get I don't want to, like, steer the audience wrong you have to get a point where you're working on your business. Absolutely you can't be the one. You know I had 50 employees. You can't be the one constantly working in your business. Your business is never going to work Right.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 13:54

But I don't think it's bad to dive back in here and there and, like you said, like businesses are based on processes, so go back and check out those processes. You know you can't be on your yacht, in your villa, you know, like not paying attention to your business you have, and not only that, but what kind of employees are you going to inspire that way? You know, like, and if you're willing to, if you're not willing to get in, like I used to give myself the worst job in front of my, my employees quite often. You know, like that's why I chose to clean the bathroom. We had horrible jobs that nobody wanted to do.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 14:28

If I had to assign somebody to do that task, I'd help them for at least an hour. You know, and like that is like what else does that build? Sure, that's not worth my opportunity cost at all. You know my time's worth hundreds of dollars an hour, but what is it worth when my people see me doing that Right, like that's inspiring to them, and then, like they, they feel like they know me right? I'm not this magnificent figure, you know, and so I don't know.

Gary Pageau: 14:45

Well, you work out a lot.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 14:46

You are magnificent but I do have that. This is all. This is entrepreneurial stress.

Gary Pageau: 14:55

This is entrepreneurial stress, so so let's talk about your, your process, right. Where did you learn that? Right, I mean I mean cause. I mean, did you have a mentor? Did you have someone who, who you saw, that you wanted to emulate, cause you know what you're talking about? I mean, did you have a mentor, did you have someone who, who you saw, that you wanted to emulate? Because you know what you're talking about? Everyone hears the hard work, everyone hears the you know delegate, everyone hears all that stuff. But I mean, did you have anyone who's like did you read a book? Did you see a seminar? What was your model for that?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 15:21

You know it's hard, because who's the model out there for me? Is Bill Gates the model for me? No, I didn't grow up with a dad that was a lawyer and a mom that, like, got me into the first computer. You know it's like. Is Mark Zuckerberg the model for me? No, I wasn't offered at Harvard or McDonald's. You know it's like. So who's the model for me?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 15:38

And so I tried to find some models as, like, people that started from nothing and grew companies. And you know, here and there I would find a couple stories, you know, but overall it's like no, I didn't have any help. You know, I had to learn it all the hard way. You know it's like every single bit of it. You know, like the nightmares, the sick to your stomach all the time, the making, the mistakes, and you know what. But know what that does to me.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 15:59

Now, like all that stuff is like, why am I getting hit this hard? Why am I getting hit this hard? Why am I getting hit with robberies and fires and bad employees? And you know, like people told me to write a book, so much bad stuff happened to me and we still, like, would come out on top. You know, and like I.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 16:13

I like it's just learning, it's learning on the fly, it's you know it's like learning from your mistakes. But guess what? That prepared me for my life now and that's why I'm thankful for every bit of hard heartache in it, because because you know how fast I can pop into somebody's company and look at what's going on with it and you know the reason I can do that is because I had the same problem and it took me a year to fix a lot of times. But now I can fix it in a couple weeks. You know it's like, and so that's that's the gist of it.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 16:41

And you know I had some, some help when I got to my mba program and things like that. But I had to decipher how to use mba skills for small business, you know and so like, and I I love my classmates. They used to give me compliments all the time. They're like tyler, one of the best parts of this program was when you would speak up, you know it's like, and tell us about, because I had already had success in business when I went to get my mba. I just wanted to pick up some extra skills.

Gary Pageau: 17:06

So that was my other question is I mean, I mean, even though you had the rough upbringing, you seem to value education. Yeah, I mean, that seems to be something that a thread that I'm seeing being pulled through your, your story here is learning and education. Where did that come from? Where did you realize that education was going to be something that was important?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 17:28

Proving them wrong. Gary, you know, when you're told, when you're young, you know that you're stupid, that you'll never amount to anything, that like, you know, like, and you're thinking you're surrendered to just be a workhorse for the rest of your life and you surrender mentally to that and you believe that. And then you like something, you have enough little wins and then all of a sudden you're like I'm going to try this college thing Cause too many doors have been closed in my face over it. You know, I'm scared to death. I'm stupid. How am I going to go to college? And you start and you're like you know what? I'm actually not doing too bad at this. Actually I'm doing really good. Maybe I'm not as stupid as I thought. And in that and the next thing you go is like what's the hardest subject? You got here and this is how I got into biochemistry. Really a couple other reasons, but mostly it's like what is the hardest subject you got? Give me that, because I'm going to show them all. You know that I can do this. You know I'm going to, I'm going to do this thing and then accomplishing it, you know and like, and then it's your fault.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 18:21

I say this make me the best in the world? Just make. I'm here, I'm devoting my time, I'm paying my bill to, to, to be in this MMA gym. Make me the best in the world. Am I going to be the best in the world? No, cause I have to put in the work too. So why do we accept that? Out of college? I'm here, I paid my tuition, make me amazing. Get me a job like give me the smarts it's like.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 18:45

No, when I studied biochemistry, I I followed my own paths and interest. They would introduce something and I would dive into it in a different way. You know I would. I use my biochemistry degree for all the work I do today. Were they teaching me how to use biochemistry in business? No, you know it's like, and so I value education, whether you know, it's self-taught. The road to college is not for everybody, you know, but I feel that if you're going to start it, you need to finish it. I don't care what your excuse is. Around your business, quitting is the number one rule that you can't do. So why do you practice it? Why do we glamorize it, you know? And so if you sign on to go into college, finish the degree, because that's the best thing you can do for your business is not be a quitter. You know I don't care, you know you can finish it.

Gary Pageau: 19:27

You may have to change the business. You may have to pivot or do some different things right, add some capabilities or do some things right, unless it's just a terrible idea. You know that is not a viable business, which is not what you experienced. But you know, I've heard a couple people you know over the years talk about things that are just not real. You know things.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 19:48

You know, to be honest, like the custom auto world is a horrible business model Really is. You know it's like I didn't. I didn't know any better. It was my first business. You know I didn't know how to like vet a business idea. I didn't sure as hell didn't know how to put it down on paper and test it first. The only reason that business model worked is because I worked so hard on it. You know, in every way it was not a good business model set up for success.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 20:09

Now it led to things that were tremendous business models, but you have to not quit and you have to like keep your expenses low in order to find those things Right. And so I believe that you can find the pivot in just about any business. You know, like I missed one of the biggest ones, which you know like that was in my business, in my face, and so now I pay attention to the pivots. Even I have six businesses right now. One of them we set out to do one thing in, and then the next thing, we know the market was telling us to do something else. We pivoted the business and that was the greatest decision we made in it, because we assumed too much in one direction. So now we're being really flexible when the market is telling us otherwise, you know, and so I think you said you missed one, you missed something.

Gary Pageau: 20:49

What was that thing you missed?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 20:51

So I mentioned like we got known for lighting systems. One of the things that blasted my company off was getting known for like pulling apart headlights, building these really cool systems inside, painting them and things like that and then sending those to people all over the country, right, and so that like gave us our first like out there, you know, image or whatever and that led to me working a lot in that world. You know, right, like led systems. And the next thing I realized is like a lot of the vehicles that were coming in the lot were still halogen technology, bulbs and halogen technology. You think of little fires going on in your lights. It's actually really archaic that we still use them. I feel like the automotive companies in the world. They're only still using them because they have a warehouse somewhere full of them. So, anyways, like one of the biggest things that the market told us was like, hey, people didn't like the halogen systems, they wanted these new LED systems. So we started buying these kits on the market so we could just swap the bulbs out, you know, so you could have led bulbs, but all of them were crap on the market, they didn't work very well, so we bought the best that we could find out there and we looked at why it worked better and like.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 21:56

There's a lot of things around heat dissipation I don't want to go too far off on that tangent, but like and then I'm sure I learned a lot of that from my biochemistry program too. It's's, like, you know, thinking about how to get rid of heat to save the LED system. So we actually ended up on this new product that we invented for LED swaps, and it worked better than anybody else on the market because we really thought about this heat problem and we used to get them in stock and we'd sell out of them in a couple days. Like people would come out and they'd buy all our inventory and then it would take us a couple of months We'd buy out our inventory again.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 22:29

I got so distracted in the operations of everything else that I should have pivoted to that business. I should have sold off the automotive shops at that point. I should have pivoted completely into LED technology because the opportunity was there. Competitors that I was looking at were making, you know, 20, 40, 50, 80, a hundred million dollars a year, you know, instead of custom auto shops, you know. So that was the big pivot I missed. And people ask me is it too late?

Gary Pageau: 22:58

It's too late, I think. I think the ship sailed. Timing is everything. Now, you raised an interesting question about where you sold a business. Now, in our my industry, the photo imaging industry, a lot of the small to medium-sized folks like the person running the business is the business right. They know everything, they do everything. They know how to run the printer, they know how to deal with the customers, they know how to shoot photos, whatever. But when the time comes to sell, it's hard to sell it because so much of the business is in the owner's head. How did you get around that?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 23:27

You have to start and that's where the in your versus on. I know, I know made a tremendous argument for being in your business, but that's where you have to start working on your business. You start setting those people up that are going to be managers, that are going to be in charge of those areas, and you have to make the company function without you, as much as you want to be delusional and think it can't, you know, and and that comes from a place of finally having a little bit of humility and finally giving some things up that are going to drive you nuts you know, and so, and then training people and you know, allowing them and becoming a good coach. You know, and so, um and so that's how you prep a business for sale. You know, and, like you want to know those things too. It's like, if this is the entirety of your life is running this business, then then you run it a certain way. If the business is someday hoping to be sold, then you run it a different way. Right, you need processes. I mean, you could be the solo operator that does all kinds of stuff and just has a couple assistants around, if you want to run it for the rest of your life. But if you want to sell it, you have to. You have to process it, right, you know. And so and luckily, my, my business partner, who he's a process genius, right, you know, and you don't have to have a business partner that's a process genius, but he's been great at evolving technology into our companies, right, and so there's somebody out there in your network, I guarantee it, that thinks in that way towards technology, and so that's another thing we did is we develop processes with technology, and that's another thing. It's a big thing we do now, especially like now. We know to start the business that way.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 24:51

So the initial phase of a business for us is what technology are we going to use, what processes are we going to use?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 24:56

And we implement those from day one, and we're constantly critiquing those, live in the moment, to make them now repeatable. And you should be able to. If you want to sell your business someday, you should write a whole book about how your business is run down to like how you answer the phone and how you address that, and if you write that book, your business will be worth so much more money. And not only that, but you'll be dialoguing your processes and don't even like let the technology scare you. You just write this book about every single process. You'll see where the improvements will be and you'll improve your business and that'll help you sell it someday or repeat it or build a new location or franchise it. You know you think people don't look at my businesses and I have a book like this of all the processes. Like you can run this tomorrow with this book and they don't see value in that they do. It's not that hard to do, it just takes time.

Gary Pageau: 25:41

Yeah, because some people have a weird perception of how they look at selling a business. Right, they almost look at it. As you know, I built this thing from the ground up and we're grossing 2 million a year and so I'm going to sell it, and they almost think of it as a reward for doing the business, and it's not. It's what you're selling is the future potential.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 26:01

Yeah, absolutely, and that you want to process it accordingly too. Right and make it have value in ways other people don't think. You know you can prep a business for sale or you can prep a business to keep it forever. But there are two different schools of thought, you know, and so so I would say honestly, it's smart to, even if you're going to own it forever, treat it like you're going to sell it someday. Put those processes together. You know, think about working on your business a little bit more. Then, when you have to take over the reins again, get in. Good on, get in. You know they call it the balcony to the field or something along those lines. You know you got to spend more time in the balcony at some point, but it doesn't mean you can't drop down to the field once in a while. You know none of us are too good for it.

Gary Pageau: 26:41

So speaking of kind of giving back or being involved. One of the things you're known for is helping underdogs. As to do these folks that you were mentioning, um, at least in a business sense, I think they do some charitable things. Let's not ignore that. But you know, you know they're not, they're not out helping. You know underdog people start business. Talk a little bit about what you're, what you do there and why that's important to you gary, thank you for asking that question.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 27:22

Um, here's the thing more women in business does more. What more women in business? More minorities in business does what More minorities in business? More underdogs in business does what More underdogs in business. And guess what?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 27:39

When we finally get into some realm of success, what do you think we care about? What are the things you think we hated about growing up? You know, you make me a billionaire. You make somebody a billionaire that has a chip on their shoulder about the foster care system, because they grew up in it and it was wrong. The prison system, because they grew up in it it was wrong. You know, like treating people unfairly because they're poor, and it was wrong.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 28:01

What do you think they do with their success? And that's why our whole hippie hypothesis, if you call it here, is you bring more underdogs to success and these are the most. These are the people that are the most powerful on the planet too, like I do a podcast in bullying too. So we study adversity right. What does adversity do to people? It either destroys them or makes them the most beautiful people on the planet, capable of accomplishing anything. So we need to get them out of the destruction area. We need to bring them to success and we do that through small business and through being a guide, not giving you money, giving you the information so you don't have to fail for years on end. You know, and then by then you get to your success. Now you change the systems that you didn't love. If Bill Gates had grew up in the foster care system, the foster care system wouldn't look the way it does, and that's kind of our hypothesis around helping people.

Gary Pageau: 28:50

So give an example of something you're doing along those lines.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 28:55

Yeah, glad to like a lot. Really, most of my life is in. My life is beautiful. My life has joy. Never thought it would because all day long, for the most part, I help people. You know, it's like whether we're working in our bully podcast, which is for charity, where we bring content for good to the world, you know, and so we interview victims of bullying that now have success stories. Arizona is the teen suicide capital of the country. We want to change that right and so we help people there.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 29:21

We have a podcast called underdogs where I basically I go out and seek guests that are going to act like Rich Father or, you know, like the information that you're not going to get out there in the rest of the world. You know, like I literally am thinking about my underdog the whole time, or maybe the 16 year old me, something along those lines. What information is going to help them? You know, out there in the world, uh, glaive, our tech company for small business we call it the big stick for small business. It has an area here where there's workspace desks. You can come in anytime you want during operating hours, use the desk to work. Know this is done in the startup culture. I don't know why it's not done in the small business culture. And not only that, but when you're on that desk we make our.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 29:59

Our office is very communal. I don't tuck myself in the back. I'm sitting right there with my business partners, one wall away. We jump over whenever you need help with something. One of my business partners is a genius with editing video marketing stuff. He'll jump over there and help you. I'll help you with strategy accounting. You know marketing anything you need with there. My other partner, seo websites. You know anything along those lines, 100% free. Or you can book into my schedule directly. I'll help you with a specific problem. If you're about to lose your business, I will go off site and I will work with you on site of your business for free, trying to help you save it. And then, on top of that, we do a free semi-monthly seminars, as long as I'm not off somewhere in the corner of the world filming our docu-series, you know.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 30:41

And so those are the things we currently do. You know like. We'll help you file your LLC for free. You know you can come in here. It costs you $40 with the the state. Don't spend a thousand dollars online. Don't let them talk you into the fact that you need to pay 250 a year for a stat agent? You don't in arizona, you know bootstrappers, you know you need to like pay attention to your money. The small business average start is six thousand dollars. Don't waste a thousand of it on the llc. Come in here, we'll help you fill out the paperwork for free.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 31:10

I mean, the other day we had a guy come in for his business. He left with his LLC, he left with his EIN, he left with his business bank account, a business credit card, that he wanted his QuickBooks set up and I'm sure a couple other things in a couple hours for free, 100% for free. And by the way, that guy and you wanna see how this comes back around you know that guy actually saw I had broken pair of shoes. You know, because I just don't really care about these things my shoes were falling apart completely. I really should have bought a new pair, I just didn't make the time for it. He saw I had a broken pair of shoes and so he came in with a bag full of shoes the next day. He gave them to me.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 31:47

Immediate reward for helping people.

Gary Pageau: 31:49

Which you usually don't have in small business, right, I mean, it usually takes a while. Right, it's the process, almost like the bodybuilding thing or the MMA thing. Right, you're not going to become that world champion overnight. It takes all that work and that process and doing all the little things during that process.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 32:05

And that's a big reason I try to come on podcasts these days because we're fighting, Gary, we're not going to talk about your story online, you know, today, I guess. But it's like people like you bringing reality to what entrepreneurship is, people like me bringing reality to what entrepreneurship is. It's like that's what's needed in the world. We don't need the guy sitting in his Ferrari saying just buy my course for a hundred dollars and I'll make you a millionaire tomorrow. You know and like. What frustrates me about that is that's not for the rich kid. The target audience is my underdogs, and that's what frustrates me, because my underdogs don't have their dad to go to and say hey, what do you think of this thing? Open six LLCs and I'll be a millionaire. You know it's like they don't have that. So they buy that stupid course and they go nowhere instead of going out there doing the hard work that it takes to get the business done.

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 32:51

That's the shortcut. There is no shortcut to the Ferrari. And not only that, but you shouldn't have the Ferrari in the first 10 years. You should be putting barriers to entry in the way, and this is a very unpopular opinion. If you've never done anything for the world whatsoever. You shouldn't have the Ferrari at all Right, I reward yourself. But if you've done nothing with your success except treat yourself because nobody is self-made in this world, not even me, who started on a dirt lot with $4,000 with no help, people bought from my businesses. I've had employees along the way. I've had helping hand here and there for some advice. It's like nobody is self-made in this world and we happen to grow up in a country where we can have anything we want if we work for it.

Gary Pageau: 33:32

Well, great, listen, I really enjoyed our talk. Where can people go to? This is your time to plug, so where can people go to get some more information about your various podcasts or reach out now? Like I said, I was very interested in the glaive thing, so talk a little bit like where can we get information on that?

Tyler Copenhaver-Heath: 33:49

Yeah, I'm glad to do it. The best place to connect to everything that I do is like my social media especially. I'm really active on my Instagram at Tyler Uriah. Glaive website is coming soon. Right now, if you're in the Arizona area, one of our businesses down here is called Backlot Studios. You can look up Backlot. It'll lead you to Glaive and everything we do here. Podcasts are underdogs, bootstrappers, game changers. Other one is bully. This a hero's journey. Thank you so much for your support If I can help you guys at all. Gary, absolute pleasure being here. I appreciate you for bringing me on. I hope it was helpful.

Gary Pageau: 34:24

It was a lot of fun. Like I said it was. You know, I think we talked longer before the podcast than actually during the podcast, so longer before the podcast than actually during the podcast. So it's a shame people missed out on that, but we'll have you again sometime soon. Thanks, yeah.

Erin Manning: 34:39

Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixel Society podcast. Read more great stories and sign up for the newsletter at wwwthedeadpixelssocietycom.